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歡迎第
位客人March 26,2008
3/23 FAPA Reunion中的鼓勵談話 （未完）
2008的總統大選結束後，FAPA（台灣人公共事務會）在台北舉辦了一場Reunion。在會中，鄭弘儀、謝志偉、杜正勝、李應元、姚嘉文、張富美人等分別發表選舉結果感想。感謝FAPA提供錄影帶子，以下是他們的談話內容：
2008 FAPA Reunion-鄭弘儀
2008 FAPA Reunion-鄭弘儀
2008 FAPA Reunion-李應元
（這一段攝影機沒有拍到李應元，只聽得到李應元的談話內容）
2008 FAPA Reunion-姚嘉文
2008 FAPA Reunion-杜正勝 Part 1
2008 FAPA Reunion-杜正勝 Part 2
2008 FAPA Reunion-謝志偉
2008 FAPA Reunion-曹長青 Part 1
2008 FAPA Reunion-曹長青 Part 2
註：因為帶子關係，影像有跳躍現象，請見諒。
（這一段攝影機沒有拍到李應元，只聽得到李應元的談話內容）
2008 FAPA Reunion-姚嘉文
2008 FAPA Reunion-杜正勝 Part 1
2008 FAPA Reunion-杜正勝 Part 2
2008 FAPA Reunion-謝志偉
2008 FAPA Reunion-曹長青 Part 1
2008 FAPA Reunion-曹長青 Part 2
註：因為帶子關係，影像有跳躍現象，請見諒。
引用URL
http://cgi.blog.roodo.com/trackback/5756019
引用列表:
雖然早有覺悟很多台灣人對公理正義是冷漠的，尤其是對大部份的台北人，我早就將他們視為沒救的一群，但看到多數高雄巿民的選擇後，還是著實被
是選舉輸掉，但我們的理念沒有輸【妙子的故鄉翦影】
at March 26,2008 07:23
回應文章 
台灣大數的中部以北的人.己經視為國民黨才是真正的領導者.那些人的想法真的很愚蠢.國民黨殺害台灣很多無辜的生命.他們還不覺醒.真的是沒救了.民進黨才是真正能幫台灣存活下來的一個黨.為什麼那些支持國民黨的人還不快點清醒過來.
相信民進黨4年後還會把台灣變成綠地的
大家一起加油!
相信民進黨4年後還會把台灣變成綠地的
大家一起加油!
Posted by 盈螢
at March 26,2008 23:33
to 盈螢:
與其去責怪那些支持國民黨的人還不快點清醒過來
不如責怪某些黨內先進是如何把和解共生當個屁
下文寫的很好 尤其是這兩句
傷害了一位同志獲得黨內提名並不表示你已贏得大選，
反而是你今生從政生涯中可能永遠失去一位得力的助選員
黨內和解共生 (自由時報)
■ 鄭金隆
民進黨黨內派系常因派系利益或政策理念不同，彼此面對媒體時對同志出言不遜，傷害了同志情誼，也因此給社會大眾的觀感是不團結的、是派系勾心鬥角的。而因傷害了同志情誼，也傷了彼此的信任，更傷了台灣人民對民進黨的期待。
立委初選傷了情誼，總統初選殺紅了眼，初選彼此你來我往的言論還讓對手拿來當打擊、消遣的話題，試想，要基層輔選時如何去為本黨的提名同志辯解輔選呢？因此，民進黨同志應切記，傷害了一位同志獲得黨內提名並不表示你已贏得大選，反而是你今生從政生涯中可能永遠失去一位得力的助選員，失去為民服務的機會。
在此民進黨大選挫敗之際，奉勸黨內先進切記黨內和解共生的必要性及重要性，如果無法體認黨內和解共生，只會讓支持你的五百多萬台灣人民更加失望，讓台灣永遠處於一黨獨大的局面，屆時，民進黨無權也無資格告訴台灣人民一黨獨大的傷害如何，因為我們不爭氣讓人民唾棄！
（作者為民進黨台北縣議員）
與其去責怪那些支持國民黨的人還不快點清醒過來
不如責怪某些黨內先進是如何把和解共生當個屁
下文寫的很好 尤其是這兩句
傷害了一位同志獲得黨內提名並不表示你已贏得大選，
反而是你今生從政生涯中可能永遠失去一位得力的助選員
黨內和解共生 (自由時報)
■ 鄭金隆
民進黨黨內派系常因派系利益或政策理念不同，彼此面對媒體時對同志出言不遜，傷害了同志情誼，也因此給社會大眾的觀感是不團結的、是派系勾心鬥角的。而因傷害了同志情誼，也傷了彼此的信任，更傷了台灣人民對民進黨的期待。
立委初選傷了情誼，總統初選殺紅了眼，初選彼此你來我往的言論還讓對手拿來當打擊、消遣的話題，試想，要基層輔選時如何去為本黨的提名同志辯解輔選呢？因此，民進黨同志應切記，傷害了一位同志獲得黨內提名並不表示你已贏得大選，反而是你今生從政生涯中可能永遠失去一位得力的助選員，失去為民服務的機會。
在此民進黨大選挫敗之際，奉勸黨內先進切記黨內和解共生的必要性及重要性，如果無法體認黨內和解共生，只會讓支持你的五百多萬台灣人民更加失望，讓台灣永遠處於一黨獨大的局面，屆時，民進黨無權也無資格告訴台灣人民一黨獨大的傷害如何，因為我們不爭氣讓人民唾棄！
（作者為民進黨台北縣議員）
Posted by Kiso
at March 27,2008 12:56
to VO:
牧那一篇或許是淺藍的看法 不無道理
但淺綠的是怎麼看?
栗子鼠網友寫的
逆轉勝策略－－台灣民族性初探與泛綠的因應之道
http://www.ettoday.com/2008/03/27/141-2251504.htm
寫的也非常之好 大家可以看看
牧那一篇或許是淺藍的看法 不無道理
但淺綠的是怎麼看?
栗子鼠網友寫的
逆轉勝策略－－台灣民族性初探與泛綠的因應之道
http://www.ettoday.com/2008/03/27/141-2251504.htm
寫的也非常之好 大家可以看看
Posted by Kiso
at March 27,2008 16:29
No I'm a deep green, and I'm not afraid to let everyone know that! I agree with 牧!
At least, he was brave enough to give DPP a hit on the head! Just hope that they can WAKE UP!!
If DPP cant hear us and make changes, we are all just wasting our time here!
Here only someone's blog, not everyone get to see or hear!
Back n Jan. , I asked my father, were杜莊 臥底 from the blue/kmt? My father, Laughed out loud! I was half serious and half joking. Seriously even though they were being themselves, and saying whatever was on their mind (straight forward ), but becuase of them, lots of people didnt want to vote for DPP!! Even though I'm deep green, but I was not very happy with their actions/behaviors!! Even if they were saying the right things and doing the right things, but tooo RAW, toooo STUPID!!
At least, he was brave enough to give DPP a hit on the head! Just hope that they can WAKE UP!!
If DPP cant hear us and make changes, we are all just wasting our time here!
Here only someone's blog, not everyone get to see or hear!
Back n Jan. , I asked my father, were杜莊 臥底 from the blue/kmt? My father, Laughed out loud! I was half serious and half joking. Seriously even though they were being themselves, and saying whatever was on their mind (straight forward ), but becuase of them, lots of people didnt want to vote for DPP!! Even though I'm deep green, but I was not very happy with their actions/behaviors!! Even if they were saying the right things and doing the right things, but tooo RAW, toooo STUPID!!
Posted by BRUIN
at March 27,2008 17:51
to BRUIN:
某些方面我非常同意你
我剛來這個部落格就為了莊國榮的事跟妙子起過爭執
很高興深綠中有您這種看法的人
另外很認真的跟您分享一點
因為本身也是對歷史小有興趣
就個人看過的資料來說
綜合杜正勝在當上院士以前發表的文獻
其實算是有點投機的中國史學者
由於文獻中反應出他在國民黨政權下無可詆賴的政治正確
外加他並不像李筱峰那樣
對自己思想脈絡有那麼透明清楚的說明
所以我個人並不信任他
某些方面我非常同意你
我剛來這個部落格就為了莊國榮的事跟妙子起過爭執
很高興深綠中有您這種看法的人
另外很認真的跟您分享一點
因為本身也是對歷史小有興趣
就個人看過的資料來說
綜合杜正勝在當上院士以前發表的文獻
其實算是有點投機的中國史學者
由於文獻中反應出他在國民黨政權下無可詆賴的政治正確
外加他並不像李筱峰那樣
對自己思想脈絡有那麼透明清楚的說明
所以我個人並不信任他
Posted by Kiso
at March 27,2008 18:17
and of course, the blue media played the most important role here. With their extreme effort everyday, they chased around them and asked them tons of questions , and protraited them as someone that anyone would want to hate or dislike!! Those medias are SUPER UNPROFESSIONAL AND SUPER JOKES!!
Posted by BRUIN
at March 27,2008 18:34
So my advice, just watch news as you watch a very bad SOAP OPERA, laugh about it and FORGET THEM ALL!
Posted by BRUIN
at March 27,2008 18:35
Honestly, one cant not play the same old trick TWICE, yet DPP were dumb enough, play the same old tricks MANY TIMES!!
NO WONDER, PEOPLE GOT TIRED OF DPP!!
228 NOT AS IMPORTANT AS MONEY IN PEOPLE\'S POCKETS!!
GREEN CARD NOT AS IMPORTANT AS ONE\'S BEING HUNGRY OR FULL!!
THE ULTIMATE PRICIPLE IS, AS LONG AS OUR POCKETS AND STOMACH ARE FULL, AS LONG AS WE ARE SATISIFIED, THEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT OTHER THINGS, TO US, OTHER THINGS ARE JUST SECONDARY!!! IN OTHER WORDS, IF WE ARE POOR AND HUNGRY, GUESS WHAT, YOU ARE OVER!!
IT REALLY DOESNT MATTER HOW WELL THE OPPONENT (MA)\'S CREDIBILTY OR ABILITY IS, AS LONG AS HE GIVES PEOPLE "DREAMS" THAT WE GONNA BE RICH, WE GONNA HAVE ENOUGH FOOD TO FEED OUR HUNGRY APPETITE, WE WOULD NOT BE HESITATED TO VOTE FOR HIM!! POLITICIANS PLAY WITH OUR MIND/PSYCHOLOGY, AND MANY CHOOSE TO COVER UP THEIR EYES AND EARS, JUST BE A FOOL, AND YEH KEEP ON DREAMING BLUE PEOPLE!!
NO WONDER, PEOPLE GOT TIRED OF DPP!!
228 NOT AS IMPORTANT AS MONEY IN PEOPLE\'S POCKETS!!
GREEN CARD NOT AS IMPORTANT AS ONE\'S BEING HUNGRY OR FULL!!
THE ULTIMATE PRICIPLE IS, AS LONG AS OUR POCKETS AND STOMACH ARE FULL, AS LONG AS WE ARE SATISIFIED, THEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT OTHER THINGS, TO US, OTHER THINGS ARE JUST SECONDARY!!! IN OTHER WORDS, IF WE ARE POOR AND HUNGRY, GUESS WHAT, YOU ARE OVER!!
IT REALLY DOESNT MATTER HOW WELL THE OPPONENT (MA)\'S CREDIBILTY OR ABILITY IS, AS LONG AS HE GIVES PEOPLE "DREAMS" THAT WE GONNA BE RICH, WE GONNA HAVE ENOUGH FOOD TO FEED OUR HUNGRY APPETITE, WE WOULD NOT BE HESITATED TO VOTE FOR HIM!! POLITICIANS PLAY WITH OUR MIND/PSYCHOLOGY, AND MANY CHOOSE TO COVER UP THEIR EYES AND EARS, JUST BE A FOOL, AND YEH KEEP ON DREAMING BLUE PEOPLE!!
Posted by BRUIN
at March 27,2008 19:56
錯誤的前提，會有錯誤的結論。
如果我是一個不問是非，只問財富的多寡。一些批評民進黨搞什麼「台灣主體意識」，「轉型正義」，「民主公投」等等是不當的言論，正和我意，更讓我覺得我的價值觀是對的，無論你們如何包裝來討好，民進黨和他的支持者都是愚蠢的。那我何必改？
如果我是一個不問是非，只問財富的多寡。一些批評民進黨搞什麼「台灣主體意識」，「轉型正義」，「民主公投」等等是不當的言論，正和我意，更讓我覺得我的價值觀是對的，無論你們如何包裝來討好，民進黨和他的支持者都是愚蠢的。那我何必改？
Posted by ESIR
at March 27,2008 20:08
7 MILILONS of Taiwanese-chinese 不問是非，只問財富的多寡 ; can carless about Taiwan and it's FUTURE & SAFTY; can careless about rightousness & Justice; can careless about民主公投. WHY?
BECAUSE THOSE, HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH FULLNESS OF STOMACH AND POCKETS!!!
BECAUSE THOSE, HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH FULLNESS OF STOMACH AND POCKETS!!!
Posted by BRUIN
at March 27,2008 20:22
Just grab anyone on the street, ask him or her, would you rather be hungry and poor than to support Taiwan's Independence or ma's green card, or ma's daughter is American citizen, or ma's lack of ability to handle matters???
I guarantee you here, 110% of them will tell you, feed me and give me money first!!!
I guarantee you here, 110% of them will tell you, feed me and give me money first!!!
Posted by BRUIN
at March 27,2008 20:26
支持謝志偉!!!!
Posted by 陽謀看不穿
at March 27,2008 21:28
What you have said above is the situation that should be turned over!
so,please stop criticizing 謝，杜，莊 are tooo RAW, toooo STUPID!!
so,please stop criticizing 謝，杜，莊 are tooo RAW, toooo STUPID!!
Posted by ESIR
at March 27,2008 21:46
一直在批評莊主秘，但對國民黨的口業卻不評論，這樣的雙重標準，很抱歉，這無關藍綠，純粹就一個講理的立場來看，我無法信服。
有多少言論在罵莊？有多少言論在挺國民黨的口業？媒體造成的不公不義罪孽已夠多的了，我不要這裡也成為一個幫兇。
如果有人對莊已道歉、已下台還不滿意，還繼續在攻擊他，那麼，請到別的論壇去評論吧，我這裡不想再對他做出攻擊的言語了。
上面跟本欄無關的留言，我將一一刪除。
有多少言論在罵莊？有多少言論在挺國民黨的口業？媒體造成的不公不義罪孽已夠多的了，我不要這裡也成為一個幫兇。
如果有人對莊已道歉、已下台還不滿意，還繼續在攻擊他，那麼，請到別的論壇去評論吧，我這裡不想再對他做出攻擊的言語了。
上面跟本欄無關的留言，我將一一刪除。
妙子：後續說明，已刪。
Posted by 妙子
at March 28,2008 18:39
to BRUIN:
我跟你最大的歧見是
我是男的 :)
to 妙子大:
好點了嗎?
我跟你最大的歧見是
我是男的 :)
to 妙子大:
好點了嗎?
Posted by Kiso
at March 28,2008 18:39
I'm BRUIN not burnin
sorry for the caps
sorry for the caps
Posted by BRUIN
at March 28,2008 18:39
Roger, BURIN...I will do the correction later.
to Kiso,
not yet...still burning. I am going back to get some sleep. Talk to you later.
to Kiso,
not yet...still burning. I am going back to get some sleep. Talk to you later.
Posted by 妙子
at March 28,2008 18:42
PS
往前看吧~
我們自己要學著語言柔軟 意志堅定
還有包容同志(以上討論的幾位 其實大家差異並不大)
這是我的一點看法
往前看吧~
我們自己要學著語言柔軟 意志堅定
還有包容同志(以上討論的幾位 其實大家差異並不大)
這是我的一點看法
Posted by Kiso
at March 28,2008 18:46
lol you "burning" too much? Still BURIN? LOL
I think you have high fever, rest a lot and lots of water.
I thought kiso was a girl ha ha ha
by the way, I see this whole thing from a very objective view, I did not criticize Chuang, I also said that BOTH sides were wrong! Unfortunately, the media only favored ma... very very very unfortunate
I think you have high fever, rest a lot and lots of water.
I thought kiso was a girl ha ha ha
by the way, I see this whole thing from a very objective view, I did not criticize Chuang, I also said that BOTH sides were wrong! Unfortunately, the media only favored ma... very very very unfortunate
Posted by BRUIN
at March 28,2008 18:53
段宜康表示，由於擔任副秘書長的行政職權，不適合未來提出民進黨的改革意見，是以宣布辭職。而檢討改革建議的內容則包括有國家定位、執政價值檢討、以及及黨內典章制度修改等三個層面。
我蠻欣賞這個態度，副秘書長的確不太適合大鳴大放
不過到底是甚麼改革意見呢?
好奇好奇~
我蠻欣賞這個態度，副秘書長的確不太適合大鳴大放
不過到底是甚麼改革意見呢?
好奇好奇~
Posted by Kiso
at March 28,2008 19:46
>就個人看過的資料來說
>綜合杜正勝在當上院士以前發表的文獻
>其實算是有點投機的中國史學者
Kiso，
這句話我願聞其詳。
杜正勝是研究中國上古史的權威，你這樣的說法若沒有依據，我想請你收回。
另外，我也會去問我史研所的同學，有這樣的看法嗎？
>綜合杜正勝在當上院士以前發表的文獻
>其實算是有點投機的中國史學者
Kiso，
這句話我願聞其詳。
杜正勝是研究中國上古史的權威，你這樣的說法若沒有依據，我想請你收回。
另外，我也會去問我史研所的同學，有這樣的看法嗎？
Posted by 妙子
at March 29,2008 22:36
我願意修改這句話
"綜合杜正勝在當上院士以前發表的文獻
我個人覺的他是有點投機的優秀中國史學者"
不會收回之理由如下:
杜正勝是研究中國上古史的權威並無庸置疑
但是杜正勝早期的研究立場非常中國本位
(見聯經杜氏著作舊版)則是白紙黑字
以台灣為本位 時間遲至1999年前後
杜氏所挑歷史研究主題 從周代社會到新史學到台灣史
通常是當時已非禁忌性與研究氛圍成熟的研究主流
當然研究的嚴謹性與思考強度則無庸置疑
但與李筱峰不斷衝撞禁忌性
與研究氛圍還很生澀的研究課題對比
我個人是覺的有點投機
一個研究上始終政治正確過份精準的人
自然影響我主觀上對他的信任
"綜合杜正勝在當上院士以前發表的文獻
我個人覺的他是有點投機的優秀中國史學者"
不會收回之理由如下:
杜正勝是研究中國上古史的權威並無庸置疑
但是杜正勝早期的研究立場非常中國本位
(見聯經杜氏著作舊版)則是白紙黑字
以台灣為本位 時間遲至1999年前後
杜氏所挑歷史研究主題 從周代社會到新史學到台灣史
通常是當時已非禁忌性與研究氛圍成熟的研究主流
當然研究的嚴謹性與思考強度則無庸置疑
但與李筱峰不斷衝撞禁忌性
與研究氛圍還很生澀的研究課題對比
我個人是覺的有點投機
一個研究上始終政治正確過份精準的人
自然影響我主觀上對他的信任
Posted by Kiso
at March 31,2008 10:20
to 妙子
也許我主觀的意見有點刺耳
但我絕非想動搖你們的信念
一方面是個性 一方面是年齡
從我第一次念大學去湊野百合學運的熱鬧至今
我一直是以'淺綠'自命
從1990年以降 有些人的轉變實在太多太快
很多人在我的左左右右轉個不停
那種感觸 實難言語
所以我一方面能諒解某些人的轉變
一方面又比較難去確信某些人的堅定
矛盾~
也許我主觀的意見有點刺耳
但我絕非想動搖你們的信念
一方面是個性 一方面是年齡
從我第一次念大學去湊野百合學運的熱鬧至今
我一直是以'淺綠'自命
從1990年以降 有些人的轉變實在太多太快
很多人在我的左左右右轉個不停
那種感觸 實難言語
所以我一方面能諒解某些人的轉變
一方面又比較難去確信某些人的堅定
矛盾~
Posted by Kiso
at March 31,2008 17:35
妙子~~~
實在太感謝你辛苦的幫大家剪輯，
真的太感謝你了，
對於療傷振奮很有鼓勵作用呢！
實在太感謝你辛苦的幫大家剪輯，
真的太感謝你了，
對於療傷振奮很有鼓勵作用呢！
Posted by 小舞
at April 1,2008 09:02
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